The covid19 Omnibus Bill in Victoria analysed by Matt Wong

Matt Wong joined Molly Knight to discuss the COVID-19 Omnibus (Emergency Measures) and Other Acts Amendment Bill 2020. Matt analysed the Bill and what it means for Victorians.

References/Links:

About:

Matt has had a very interesting range of careers. He started as a pilot before moving on to own a medical clinic. He studied law twice (under grad and post grad) but disliked it so switched to business and obtained an MBA. He has started and sold many companies, worked for corporates in robotics and A.I. and more recently started making content in an effort to be helpful to others every day.

Click on the image below to watch the full interview:

 

The full transcript follows  – E&OE :

Molly Knight 0:02
Hello, everyone, welcome to Health Australia Party. I’m Molly. Tonight we’ve got a really interesting talk about the omnibus bill, Victoria. And tonight we’re talking with Matt Wong. Now, Matt’s a very interesting character. I don’t know too many people who’ve studied law twice because they wanted to, but he has. He started off as a trainee. pilot, then moved into law. And then, for whatever reasons, didn’t like that. And then he switched and went into business and did his MBA. So he’s got a really varied and interesting career. And a lot of knowledge comes with all that learning and experience. So welcome, Matt, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

Matt Wong 0:52
Thank you, Molly. Hello to everyone.

Molly Knight 0:56
So tonight, Matt, we want I want to talk to you about Victoria. Wonderful, Victoria.

Matt Wong 1:03
sad story.

Molly Knight 1:04
It’s a very sad story. But it you know, this covid virus obviously loves Victoria, because it’s the only state that has such draconian measures in place. So around the world, as far as I know, nobody, nobody is shut down, like Victoria is, and they’re trying to even enforce it more. With an omnibus bill, can you please tell me what an omnibus bill is?

Matt Wong 1:33
It’s a very common thing where we need to make a lot of small changes to an act. So an act is just a piece of legislation, a law, and a bill is a baby act, once it gets voted into law, it becomes an act. So when we have to edit a lot of acts at the same time we pass an omnibus bill. Now, the problem with this omnibus bill, of course, is that it’s much as a whole bunch of little things. It’s a whole bunch of little things plus sneaky little, little insertion at the end there.

Molly Knight 2:02
Yeah, yeah, it’s um, it covers quite a few areas doesn’t have government, the juvenile area, the health area. Yeah. And what so in this bill, what do you think are the most important points that Victorians need to one be aware of? And to do something about what are the points that need to be stressed to the people that this is taking away so much more of their freedoms? I believe, I believe anyway, that’s what’s happening.

Matt Wong 2:38
Do you want me to jump straight to the horrors of it?

Molly Knight 2:41
Yes, please, Matt. As bad as it can get jumping.

Matt Wong 2:45
You’re not you’re not alone in thinking that you’re in good company, former Chief Justice of the High Court of Australia, Justice McHugh, a number of distinguished q C’s have all come out today, twice, actually, today, they came out and a different lot came out a couple of days ago, writing an open letter. What we’re looking at now is the most authoritarian laws that we have ever seen in Australia that are more akin to a despotic society, which we would never have dreamed could come to Australia. So I guess if we cut right to the point, we are looking at a bill that is going to allow the Department of Health and Human Services to appoint anybody to become a delegated authorized officer to exercise the emergency powers which are contained in Section 200 of our public health and well being act. And that’s things like locking us down. The scary part is not so much that they’re going to exercise these powers for further six months. It’s that anyone is going to be able to do it that they appoint even with no qualifications, and they’re going to be do they’re going to be able to detain us before we commit crimes. So we’re entering into a world of pre crime enforcement similar to Minority Report, the movie with Tom Cruise.

Molly Knight 4:02
Hmm. That doesn’t really make sense unless suddenly all these people are great psychics and can predict what crimes coming?

Matt Wong 4:10
Well, it seems odd that you would put very tricky and discretionary powers into the most untrained, I mean, at the moment, we’re seeing big poll, Victoria, please do some things that are they’re making a lot of mistakes. And even if it’s a minority of they’re very well trained force, they’re a very well trained force. And so to think we are now going to put even further discretion in powers into the hands of VSOs public service public safety officers I think they call or even public servants, and this is not an exaggeration. In the front of the bill. There’s an explanatory memorandum, and it literally says that they want to put this power into the hands of public servants.

Molly Knight 4:53
just doesn’t make any sense to me. None of this in Victoria is making any sense

Matt Wong 5:00
Well, a lot of us are trying to figure out why. And there are theories You know, there’s there’s the the more fringe I guess, I feels mean when I say fringe I don’t mean that in a bad way. But I guess there’s less of them on the on the on the right, far right, who would say, Oh, he’s, he’s evil he wants to sell us to try and he’s trying to take over the country and make us into a gulags like Nazi Germany. And you’ve got the other side on the left who are irrationally saying, I stand with Dan. He can do no wrong. I sit somewhere in the middle, I really think that he’s unfortunately destroying our state in many ways. And it’s not just my opinion. It’s the deputy Lord Mayor of Melbourne, who interviewed a couple of days ago. It’s Jim Penman from Jim’s mowing, who was in this room yesterday, it’s these people who are on the front line who are telling me how a state is being destroyed. Not just economically, I’ve had the COVID doctors in here in this room, the ones who originally wrote that letter, the original 12 or 13. And they’ve been telling me We are destroying this state, we are destroying the health of this state because of the increased deaths and so on that were causing mental health harms. I’ve even had the today I interviewed Sanjeev subblock. He’s the economist who resigned in protest from the Treasury and finance. And he’s saying we are killing people. So we’re doing a very bad thing down here, but I believe that Dan is trying to save us. I think he’s, I think he’s on a crusade. And I think he’s trying to save the state. And unfortunately, he’s destroying the state. And that’s the only thing I can think that can explain the craziness, the absurdity of it and why he doubles down and triples down on some of his policies.

Molly Knight 6:40
But Matt, what is it he’s trying to save Victoria from

Matt Wong 6:44
the Coronavirus that’s going to kill us all.

Molly Knight 6:48
That’s proven to be no worse than normal flu. But in fact, cancer death rate, heart disease, regular influenza deaths are all down because COVID numbers are up. So there’s something quite corrupt in that to start with.

Matt Wong 7:06
I didn’t come on here to hear a lot of reason, Molly, get out of here with your facts and your

Molly Knight 7:12
Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, has to be off me. Yes. Why? What is it the savings from because you cannot even if this is a true new virus, you can’t protect people from viruses. They are everywhere. They’re on my glasses in my hair on my little headband. There. I’m breathing them, they are everywhere. So no matter how much you locked down people, you cannot stop this.

Matt Wong 7:41
The viruses aren’t all bad either. I mean, from a biological evolutionary biology perspective, they are part of if you believe in it, they’re part of the evolution of the human species. But look, I think he’s there’s another theory as well, which is more rational, perhaps, than even my theory, and that is from political insiders who have told me that he’s simply too deep. He’s He’s so deep, he can’t turn around and admit fault.

Molly Knight 8:06
Right?

Yeah. So he would, yeah, he just can’t admit that he’s gotten it wrong. And step back from it?

Matt Wong 8:15
Well, I can give you some interesting things, right. So there’s three things big pole, so I have contact inside, not inside contact, who has contacts inside big pole. And they currently doing exercises with ADF here in Melbourne. And they are saying that the that the morale and big pole is the lowest it’s ever been in a generate in a in a big pole generation. So in 1015 years of recruits, the ATF saying they are not enjoying working with Vic Paul, so much so that you’ve seen some videos where there’s one in particular where there’s an ADF member in a big poll harassing a lady for sitting down pregnant on a park bench, and the ADF member turns away from the camera and just kicks you right away from it. I think it’s becoming toxic. They’re losing their social license here in Victoria. So that’s the first signal the Treasury, the economist from the Department of Treasury and finance. They told me that almost unanimously, every single economist within Treasury and finance in Victoria agrees with his views, which is anti lockdown, and we’re killing people. And he resigned in protest. And he’s been in the news everywhere. Yes, he thinks there’s one, maybe two out of the 100 economists within our department, that a pro what Dan’s doing, and that our treasury department is advising Dan to do things differently and is frustrated that they that Dan is our premier is ignoring the advice being given to him.

Molly Knight 9:38
I mean, just doesn’t make sense. So his advice, he’s ignoring health advice, he’s ignoring advice on the economy. There has to be a reason apart from his ego. Apart from him thinking he’ll look stupid if he winds it back. I don’t know. I don’t know about the conspiracies. Going around, but something is very wrong here.

Matt Wong 10:04
something is very wrong. But I’m encouraged that if you think about more women we can start at a style was quite and get more complex from there. But the style was quick does it best when it says this is how democracy dies to thunderous applause. And it really sums up a lot of philosophical thought in that we don’t see dictatorships arise in, in protest, you always see them arise with the consent of the people. So the fact that Victoria is turning, we are seeing q C’s come out now. Businesses come out. So many people are coming up now, even the left wing media returning. I have great hope for Victoria. Because if they’re, if they’re waking up, then I don’t think we’re going to go full dictator then.

Molly Knight 10:47
Okay, well, that would be yes, that would be wonderful. Now, in this bill, and I was having a look at it earlier today. There seems to be and the media have definitely focused on this a little bit, that these people if this bill gets through the upper house, or the Legislative Council that he’s in Victoria isn’t up yet. So if it gets past it, these people with these new powers can detain children, I mean, they could be removed.

Matt Wong 11:18
No, no, no, calm down, everyone. Calm down.

I go great pains to make sure that you know my all of my content, I shouldn’t you found me through that video I made is accurate. The reason why I didn’t bring up the children is is causing a lot of fear, my inbox is flooded with moms afraid that the children are going away. Yeah, the power to remove children has always been there. And it’s generally what’s intended to be used in the case of delinquent parents, and so on. Right, we know that it’s always rested with the courts. So the courts have the ability to make those orders and family reunification orders and so on. Now, in the bill, it does make changes to some of those acts and the ability to extend family reunification, orders, and so on. However, it does not centralize power into the hands of the executive branch of government into the authorized officers or the police. It’s still specifically says that the courts can, and let me say something about the courts, we must have some faith in our courts in Victoria, you have to understand what’s happening here is 100%, not the fault of the courts, the courts have not been allowed to speak. So we have a separation of powers, you know, judiciary, executive and legislative people who make the laws, people who enforce the laws, the police and people who judge whether we’ve broken the law or not. So at the moment, every single COVID fire, not a single one has made it through to the courts yet this is our attorney general admitting this in the parliamentary accounts and estimates committee. Now one of the theories is that they don’t want it to get to the courts. Now putting the theory aside. It’s true that the laws are not being tested, because they’re not getting to the courts. So the judiciary, the judges, the courts have not been able to speak so we should not be angry at them. In fact, I’m hopeful that the most left wing state in Australia, the most progressive lenient, judges in Australia are here. So I’m hopeful that when it does get to the courts, we’ll finally get to see them play their hand and I suspect they are going to throw out quite a lot.

Molly Knight 13:18
Huh? Yeah. Okay. Yes, I guess, if you look at a bigger picture, overall, most people have a lot of common sense, don’t they?

Matt Wong 13:27
Especially on judiciary? Yes. I know. We have some weird stuff happening in the courts. But on the whole, they’re very good, huh?

Molly Knight 13:40
We’ve gone Sorry, sorry, people. I don’t know if anyone can see me or Oh, we just went. We just went blank. Sorry, everybody. I don’t know what’s happening. Some of my emails have been disappearing and all sorts of funny things happening. Anyway. Okay, so yes, so most, most people do have common sense and understand that this perhaps, has been handled in a very interesting manner. But with this omnibus bill, you know, this is pasture lower house. So that means there’s a lot of politicians who are saying, yep, let’s go for these changes.

Matt Wong 14:22
Okay, so this is an interesting story. We have it passed in low house because then Andrew is Labour government. Victoria has a massive majority in you know, low house. And so everything passes. However, I’ve just been told about 10 minutes ago before I jumped on with you, from someone who works in Spring Street in, in politics down here. That’s many of the MP The Labour MPs who are voting for it don’t want to now it makes sense that they have to have to follow party lines. They don’t like it. And a lot of them have supported the tilt at Dan’s leadership last week, where Tim palace was the front runner he did the numbers didn’t get the numbers. And so that’s why we started Coming up standing supporting Dan, this happens with every challenge happened, Turnbull. And Peter Dutton. It always happens, they do a first round, they don’t get the numbers and they come out and support them. So that’s first of all. And I’ve been given a name of one day to chase down because they really don’t like what Dan’s doing, see if I can interview them. So that’s good news. Now, Samantha, the greens have come out saying they don’t support this bill, because it’s bad, and it’s scary, and it’s arbitrary, and they will vote against it in the upper house. However, don’t forget everyone, those hypocrites called the greens voted for it in the low house. So there you go. Good news, though. The crossbenches. So this is where it will fail. Hopefully, in the upper house, it’s going to get there in the beginning to the middle of October. So we have a couple of weeks to three weeks. Yeah. And we lost the state of emergency fight by one vote, just 2119 on the measures that mattered. So if one flipped to would have been 2020, so fails, and has to win by a majority. So the upper house we’ve already had Fiona pattern who voted for the state of emergency she’s come out publican says she won’t support this bill in its current form. So I think just by that we’ve won the greens have said that they won’t support it in the house either. And that gives me hope that it won’t pass. But that said, this is the most serious thing I’ve seen in my family in my 30s. So maybe that doesn’t hold much weight. But other older people have said it’s the most serious change to what they’ve seen in their lifetimes. You see, yeah, on LinkedIn, the lawyers are out there saying it. So we need to fight.

Molly Knight 16:36
So what how do people do that? How does the public actually see what’s happening? And how do they get their voice? Heard?

Matt Wong 16:46
See what’s happening? Do you mean by like, well, we’re explaining

Molly Knight 16:50
Yeah, yeah, with with this bill, they, I mean, I’m absolutely amazed at the compliance of Victorians, with everything that’s been happening, I just, I don’t understand how they sit back. And maybe they’re only seeing the news on CHANNEL SEVEN, or nine or whatever. And they’re not really looking deeper at what’s going on, but to be singled out as a state with such severe restrictions. When all around the world the information is changing about how this virus is affecting people and the severity of it. We know it’s no worse than a flu. Why are they so compliancy? I don’t understand that. And so will they just be compliant with this bill? Will they sit back and say yes, Dan, come on, bring it on. Why are they jumping up and down? And if they want to jump up and down? How do they jump up and down? What do they do? Well, first of

Matt Wong 17:49
all, we have been squashed. If you look at the protest numbers around different cities in support of Victoria, you’ve had in Brisbane, I can’t remember what you had 1000 people or something out there. Sydney, you sorted Olympic Park a couple of weeks. So you had a lot. And the number of people who were intending to protest and he was very large. We had a Facebook group. We just Melbourne there was a Facebook group with over 115,000 members in it. 20,000 odd said that, yes, they’re going to the events, even if a quarter showed up, or a fifth showed up. We’re talking about a couple thousand people in protest. But we’ve had some of the most extreme draconian enforcement’s by police. You know, I did a video of the Queen Victoria markets was there that day buying food. I couldn’t believe what I saw. We are being scared into not I mean, we’ve had protests now every week since then of hundred people. So it’s obvious to me that even statistically speaking, it’s the curfews it’s the five kilometer limit. It’s the arresting for posting things on Facebook, see intimidation. It’s normal people like myself have DK phones now, in case we get raided by the police. It’s a joke. So first of all, I think that there is a resistance is just that we’re being squashed. What can we do? Well, mass civil disobedience would work. However, I would never suggest illegalities. I can’t I don’t want to be right about big poll. I don’t think we have I don’t think Victorians have the stomach for it. I think like you say we roll over. And we just allow the government to do what they like. So the only thing we can do is fight within the system. And that’s what they do. For example, with my friend Monica. She runs that page, reignite democracy Australia. It’s a respectful page where they do campaigns to email MPs and so on. I know you guys have something you have a tool where you can put in your address or something and it’ll tell you who your MPs are, so you can get their email address or whatever. So contacting the Labour MPs is key because a lot of them are dissatisfied with what’s going on.

Molly Knight 19:49
Yeah, that’s good to know. Because you don’t sort of hear that out there. So that’s really good information.

Matt Wong 19:55
I wouldn’t bother contacting the liberals. If I interview them in this room. I talked to I wouldn’t bother they’re all on board don’t waste their time. They’re all voting against, I wouldn’t bother contacting David limbrick from the Liberal Democrats or Tim quilty, they’re all, they’re all voting against it. It’s the labour people, we really need to convince them this coup to happen. We need, we need them to, we needed that coup to win, you know, the the Tim palace Leadership Challenge, something like that would be very, very good wouldn’t solve the problem, what labour would still be in, but they would be forced to make significant changes to their policy to justify the coup, that is a win. But other than that, we have to wake up is more important. We need to open our eyes and see what’s happening in front of us. And this goes for other states as well. You have to understand that governments, it’s not about what’s legal to bet what they can get away with. And we even had Dan Andrews today saying that the reason he locked down those towers was not because of powers under the public health and well being accidentally been seen. Now he’s claiming that they simply secure our quote, secured the site as the landlords of the government towers. So now he’s saying that as the landlords he used v. Paul to secure it in what would amount to a tort illegal tort of false imprisonment. So it’s all over the place, but he gets away with it. So please don’t allow other states, your states to get away with it because they Polly’s will look to Victoria. And they’ll see if the people of Victoria put up with it, then maybe the people of let’s say, who will put up with forced vaccinations, which is exactly what’s written into their Public Health Act, as in they can tie you down and inject you with what could be a perfectly safe vaccine? I don’t know. I’m not a doctor, but I’m just telling you, it’s in the Public Health Act.

Molly Knight 21:36
Hmm. Yeah, that’s, that’s enormously scary, because we don’t know what’s in it. And there’s a lot of information about vaccination programs around the world that have gone belly up very seriously. So yeah, when we don’t know. You know, we don’t have true choice. Oh, we can. I

Matt Wong 21:54
cannot Sorry to interrupt. Can I just emphasize to, you got to understand who this is coming from. I’m telling you to be careful of the vaccination thing and why I’m a fan of vaccinations. I’m vaccinated. My kids are vaccinated. So if I’m telling you to be careful, and holy hell, there’s something going wrong,

Molly Knight 22:10
huh? Yeah. Look, a lot of people that are very well, they’re, they’re vaccinated. They don’t they they believe in vaccines. And they’re saying, I don’t know about this vaccine because it’s so rushed. No way. Yeah, no, no, I think I don’t think many people will be silly enough to take something that’s not being well trialed, and so on. Yeah, I guess for me, I’m in New South Wales. So I look at it and I think okay, so if Victoria rolls on all of this, where does that leave the rest of Australia? Because if, yeah, Queensland wha they can certainly follow suit quite quickly. And then we’ve got the other states that I guess they may like the control or whatever it is, I don’t know what’s in these minds of these people. But we have to all of Australia needs to be aware of what’s going on. And, you know, talk talk to your members of parliament. You’re right. Just Just contact them. Matt, can we just backtrack a little bit? Are you able to tell them? just discuss a little bit because I know you know quite a bit about this. What is actually in this bill? What are the other? The forced vaccination is one of it.

Matt Wong 23:29
Oh, that’s not in this bill. That’s in WA’s.

Molly Knight 23:33
WA’s health bill? Yeah. Health?

Matt Wong 23:35
I think it’s in the current act. Yeah. We don’t have anything like that in Victoria.

Molly Knight 23:40
So what what’s in this omnibus bill, what what is actually in it?

Matt Wong 23:46
So I’m just pulling it up in front of me now. So what did you want to know about the the good, there’s a whole lot of good stuff, as you don’t know about that. Just, you know, the ability for courts to conduct things via zoom and all of that, you know, that’s all fine. The bad stuff you wanted to know about?

Molly Knight 24:01
I see. Well, that’s the stuff that scares people, but the stuff that takes away their freedoms and their rights as a human being. So yeah, let’s have a look at that.

Matt Wong 24:11
Just cut me off. If I’m I don’t know how long I’ve got to ask how long we’re interviewing for. So I don’t want to keep you too long. I’ve got plenty of time. But if you look at lay it all out. Okay. So if you look at the bill, which you can get from where would you get it from? I think it’s at legislation.fema.gov. Au, and it is called the covid 19 Omnibus emergency measures and other acts Amendment Bill 2020. It’s only 45 pages long and half of that is the explanatory memorandum, which I said was at the front of the bill. If you go down to page a COVID-19, temporary measures, which is down sort of thing, page 11 ish. Here we’re talking about for example, section 250 of the bill which is intending to add Section 30 into the act. So a new section 30. subsection one is going to say that the Secretary so the secretary of the HHS, by instrument, this is important. instrument means just a piece of paper that they sign. So in our country, we have x and then we have regulations, regulations are not voted on. And then legislative instruments which sit below, which is literally just a letter that someone signs. So the secretary by instrument may appoint any of the following to be an authorized officer. So these are the people who can exercise the emergency powers. This is the condition, a person the secretary considers appropriate for appointment based on the person’s skills, abilities, experience, or otherwise. And you know what other qualifications are listed or as required, it’s none. That’s it. So just the Secretary has to consider that they’re appropriate for appointment based on skills, attributes, experience or otherwise. Now, they said this is this is not an exaggeration. In the explanatory memorandum, if you scroll up to the top of that bill, it literally says that this new section 30, subsection one is intended to enable the HHS to appoint public servants to exercise these powers. If you think about these powers, we’re talking about significant powers, which are found in Section 200 of the public health and wellbeing act. They’re things like detaining people, and so on. Now, that is scary, because at the moment, we’re seeing big poll make a lot of errors, and they’re highly trained. We’re talking about people who are untrained, how many errors are they gonna make, but it goes on, there are more bad things that are sneaking in through this on the bus. We already have section 192 of the public health mobbing Act, which is allows people to assist anyone who’s exercising emergency powers to anyone, there’s no qualification on that. So if the law says currently now, if a let’s say a police officer is trying to detain someone under emergency powers, any other citizen any other human in here in this state can assist that officer. So the ability to recruit others. So now we’re talking about a public servant coming to your door with the help of I don’t know your neighbor, exercising some of these powers. Now, that’s scary enough, section 200 pounds is scary enough, they want to introduce a new section, this is called further emergency powers. This is a new section called section 200. A for apple. Further emergency powers say that a designated authorized officer which is now public servants, or whoever they want, may detain a person under Section 200. Which of those powers if a direction has been given in the exercise of emergency power, so just give a direction. And this is the key. The designated authorized officer reasonably believes that a person who is required to comply is a high risk person and is likely to refuse or fail to comply. So it’s saying that the officer has to make a prediction now that you are likely to refuse or failed to comply. And if you are likely to refuse or fail to comply, maybe someone like me, who’s on a podcast with Health Australia Party is likely or a fuse. I don’t know. It’s in the minds of that public servant, he comes to my door. They can detain me.

Molly Knight 28:17
So what does that mean when they detain you? Where do you go?

Matt Wong 28:21
It’s detainment and forcible removal. So they can put you in a facility like hotel quarantine. And to be fair to the government, they are saying that, look, there are some people with mental health issues or some people are so out there in terms of repeated offenses against the code of directions that they’re very high risk and likely to, to to disobey these orders. So we have to preemptively lock them up. Now, I don’t I mean, that’s ridiculous. That’s such a abrogation of liberties. But that’s what the government is saying. And I understand why they’re saying that. Yeah. And so detainment, okay, there is no limit. So there is no recourse to the courts, either. This is the huge thing. Usually when you detain someone, they can call them the courts to complain. There’s nothing left, perhaps maybe for the legal nerds out there. They could issue writs of habeas corpus, which is, you know, you can look that up, but it’s very unlikely. Overall, you’re stuck in there as long as the the authorised officer or the department does this to you. But keep in mind, there were the two conditions, right, they had to believe that you’re likely to disobey and you had to be a high risk person. And this bill defines a high risk person as someone with COVID-19 positive test results, or has had close contact with someone who has had a positive COVID-19 test result. So the effect of this bill is going to make tests go down. I mean, you think why the hell am I going to get tested for COVID-19 now and become a virus person?

Molly Knight 29:48
Yeah, exactly.

Matt Wong 29:49
I’m not gonna get tested. Why would I?

Molly Knight 29:51
Yeah, no, you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t put you at a higher risk.

Matt Wong 29:57
So that’s it. I mean, That’s the powers and and that’s what I can do. So overall, it’s pre emptive. Pre crime, it’s like minority report that the movement is it’s pre emptive detention based on a loosened standard of just predicting someone. And that prediction is now coming from a very diffuse and diverse, untrained, potentially untrained population.

Molly Knight 30:25
Hmm, yeah, it could be anyone could know. I mean, I don’t know. I just I don’t get it. I seriously don’t understand how any politician can say this is okay. No matter how deep a hole is dug for themselves. It just makes no sense.

Matt Wong 30:46
Well, look, I think it does if if

Can I read a quote to his place of you? Do you know CS Lewis? Well, he wrote nonie sorry. Oh, CS Lewis.

Molly Knight 31:01
Yep. Yep. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 31:02
He’s written a lot of things besides Narnia. But just a short quote, which kind of sums it up. He says, All tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercise for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive, it would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. Because the robber barons cruelty may sometimes sleep he’s cupidity or greed May at some point be satiated. But those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. And I think this is the big problem we’re facing and Victoria those who are for Dan for the lockdowns and for Dan and his friends, they truly believe they’re doing the right thing. And there’s no end to the destruction they’re causing because they’re doing it with the approval of their own conscience. And that is why lately I’ve been fighting by interviewing people, and publicizing them who who are focusing on the on the conscience side of things like why can’t we let our kids go back to school? Why is it okay that that couple drop their kids off to the grandparents killed themselves? But it’s better it’s it’s not okay that the 95 year old died? Why are we equivalent? equivocating live lives? Why is one life more important than another? Then? You tell us that we’re being like that you’re Why is it okay? It’s not it’s not okay. Why Jim, Jim’s mine was in here the other day interviewing. And he, he’s got franchisees who have literally now have no government support, because they’re on a bridging visa. They’re destitute, they have to go and live in his conference center, and they’re trying to feed this poor woman. You know why? Because she has a dog washing trailer, Jim’s dog washing, she’s not allowed to wash dogs by herself in the trailer. But if you own a dog washing store, like a shop front, you’re allowed to what the hell is that? Well, how about the council’s can mow the grass in groups, but franchisees of gyms who want to move by themselves, No, stay home and go broke?

Molly Knight 32:59
That’s insane. It is insane. See, it makes no sense. None of this is making sense.

Unknown Speaker 33:07
Look, I hate to be so negative, but i i think that we are we are seeing a fight come up against it. And I want to encourage people who are listening, what can you do? We talked about calling members and so on and, and asking questions and keeping your eyes open and looking at what’s happening in your own state. But we also need to think about the key opinion leaders the influences, they have been eerily quiet so much so that I’ve had huge businessman contact me from Australia, one of the biggest businesses in Australia has thousands of staff does hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue every year, totally supports us but can’t say a word. He says I can’t say anything in public because he’s industries quite left wing. And he just can’t afford to. It’s not even for him. He doesn’t he has staff. He doesn’t want to destroy the livelihoods of all this stuff. But we need we need you opinion leaders. We need you leaders to come out and have a rational discussion. Look, the COVID doctors were here they’re doing it. The q C’s are coming out. They’re doing it. The deputy Lord Mary interviewed in here he’s doing it of Melbourne. Other people need to come out not just the same humans who are out there saying, you know, he’s painted as crazy. Some human. We need the normal middle people to come out and say hey, I don’t want this anymore. Thank you.

Molly Knight 34:22
Yes. Yeah. enough’s enough. Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s, um, I don’t like saying people hide behind. I just can’t do this. Because if everybody stood up and said, This is not right, let’s stick take a step back then it would end tomorrow. Even then. If everybody keeps saying, Oh, I can’t do this. And you know, I’ve got to be careful. Well, that okay, you’re stuck with what you’ve got time to speak up people.

Unknown Speaker 34:53
Let me be an encouragement to you as well. Do you know who I am? I’m a nobody. I’m not even a lawyer. And yet, everyone, thousands of 100 something thousand people are watching my breakdown of the omnibus bill. You know why? Because all the brighter minds out there haven’t been bothered to do it. And I’m actively yelling at them on LinkedIn saying, Come on, you guys are way smarter than me. Please speak like, do an explainer video on this law, you got probably going to find heaps of areas in mind because you’re a real lawyer, but no one’s doing it. If I can do I’ve got no following. You know, I just, I’m just trying to help. And I think a lot of people have expertise in health, like GPS, if you’re a GP come out and tell the stories of Hey, why can’t I prescribe my patient? hydroxychloroquine? I may be wrong, but maybe I should be allowed to try it. Why are you banning it? I’m gonna tell you stories, put a video up on Facebook. And if you need a platform, talk to me. When I have a TV show I have I have the ear of politicians, you know, will will if you got a good story, and you tell it well, we’ll make you famous.

Molly Knight 35:52
Mm hmm.

Yeah, it’s um, well, I just keep saying none of it makes sense. And I know certainly that there’s been a huge amount of advice given to government officials, particularly health ministers about ways that this could be dealt with in a safe manner for everyone. But they take no notice. No notice at all. It’s a no no, we need to you Out with the old and in with the new I think we need a bit of a turnaround. Yeah,

Matt Wong 36:25
well, I think what you hit on it, you know, don’t hide behind influences as I’m trying to tell you people look at me like I’m an influencer. I’m not. I’m normal. Like you guys. Come on. Everyone Speak up. Do you can do it legally, on your phone on Facebook. Please help me come out here and talk.

Molly Knight 36:42
Exactly. And I think too, I mean, if everybody comes out of their houses in Victoria, there aren’t enough police or Defence Force personnel to put them all away. So now you’re talking Hands up.

Matt Wong 36:55
Now you talk about civil disobedience which v Paul who are listening? I’m not suggesting a protest. Thank you, Paul. However, theoretically speaking people, if the BLM March happened to remember that there was 10,000 plus people in Melbourne March is 20 27,000 police officers throughout all of Victoria and what how many 66 point 8 million or something oversee there is no way they could stop mass civil disobedience. Now. I don’t think it’s going to happen. I don’t think Victorians have the stomach for it, as I’ve said. But the point is, why are we living in fear we are the voice of Victoria We are the power of Victoria we are we set the tone, not the Premier’s office and I say this over my videos. Don’t let him set the tone. And you know how you do that. When you’re at Woolworths people are stressed. If you’re at the supermarket, the only place we’re allowed to go once a day, you South Welshman you don’t get it, we’re only allowed to go out once a day one person for two hours. It’s when you’re at Woolworths, Hey, nice to the person in the queue in front of you. Like, you know, let’s let’s let’s take back the city that set the tone of this place. And then Andrews can go to hell with his fear and division in the press conferences. I just don’t listen to his fear anymore. And I think we’ll win that way.

Molly Knight 38:11
Mm hmm.

Yes, some speak up here. wherever you are. Speak out a little bit gently, though. civil disobedience. No, no. But do something. It’s time. People have to get together and they have to stand up. There’s no two ways about that.

Matt Wong 38:30
Oh we’re not allowed to get together.

Molly Knight 38:32
No, that’s right. You know, I think in New South Wales, it’s still a maximum of 20 people at certain things. But you know, weddings and funerals are different. I mean, you know, when you hear things like that, that is the common sense is gone. Because does the virus not go for people that are in isolation or small groups, but always there in big groups, but only if you’re in small group? I mean, it’s, it’s all back to front. We should

Matt Wong 39:06
lvrs is very intelligent Molly. It is nocturnal. It comes out at it used to come out at 8:01pm but as of a week ago, comes at at 901 pm. That’s why we will have to huddle into our homes at 9pm.

Molly Knight 39:19
Yeah, it’s very clever and won’t cross those borders. Yeah. It’s very good. When

Matt Wong 39:26
we make fun, but I’ve had the doctors in here showing me the stats that cases aren’t dead exploding Victorian, a second wave, yes. But deaths did not. Somehow the virus is really struggling to kill us. And that’s not taking away from the people who have tragically died. Like they do all the time. People don’t all the time. My first career was in medicine. I had a medical clinic for nine years. I’m very familiar with death. I hated seeing my patients died very young ages. But coronavirus, as you said it’s similar to the flu. I put the stats I’ve seen it’s a little bit worse than the flu, but it’s certainly not Nothing like a real nothing like the Spanish flu. And it certainly deaths. You know why we switched from measuring tests to cases because the deaths aren’t there anymore.

Molly Knight 40:10
It’s a mess. It is a mess. It’s some people have just been badly lied to. hoodwinked. Yeah, it’s very sad. Very sad. Okay. Is there anything else you could suggest, Matt that could help people move through this a little bit easier so that the fear dissolves a little bit for Victorians

Matt Wong 40:41
or?

Molly Knight 40:43
Well, for everybody really. But Victoria is a tragic at the moment. It’s I think it’s, I mean, it’s almost it’s so serious that people just don’t understand what’s really being done. I think, in fact, I saw a photo today come through a feed of a big camera, two cameras on light poles with loudspeakers. And apparently, they’re on every corner in the CBD in Melbourne. I mean, I have no way to verify that. But that’s what came through on this feed with a photo of these great big box

Matt Wong 41:22
cameras, facial recognition cameras, do you mean?

Molly Knight 41:26
Well, I guess it would be Yeah. I mean, I don’t actually have a problem with cameras. Because, you know, I think, you know, it’s good. You can get the crooks and you can follow people a bit. And but I think having lat Why have they got loudspeakers on them? That makes no sense. Why do you need loudspeakers? And there’s two cameras, a big one at the top and one on the box. So what is that all about? And are they on every street corner?

Matt Wong 41:52
No, they’re not. I’ve seen that picture on social media and I was in the CBD. For a week and a half ago, I traveled all over for work still. And I’m not seeing those. I’m just, I wish I was so I can tell you. It’s terrible. But I’m not saying those. I’m not seeing those errors. Yeah, yeah, I think we have to be careful, everyone, because we all want to find and doing the wrong thing. And he’s doing plenty wrong. Okay? So let’s crucify him for what he’s doing wrong. Do not make up stuff. Because if you make up stuff, no one’s gonna believe us when we point what he is doing wrong. So please just focus on what’s actually verified. There’s plenty of it. Plenty of us.

Molly Knight 42:29
Well, it’s very hard to get verification when people aren’t allowed out more than five kilometers. And, you know, it’s hard to get that verification, I guess. But, you know, obviously, that’s real light camera, and they were around somewhere on

Matt Wong 42:44
Yes, of course, somewhere. But that really goes to your point about hey, what can we do to dissolve the fear? I think, you know, if you go outside now in Melbourne, and you have I asked someone in the interview before this one, how many police have you seen when you go out shopping to check your mask? None? In the whole two months of lockdown? None. Why do you wear your mask then? Is it because you think it’s like say like health reasons? No. Why I don’t get fine, but you never see any police and they Oh, so the thing is place, place rule. This theory by Jeremy Bentham called the panopticon, I won’t go too deep into it, it might be a bit long, but just the idea of being afraid of being caught jumping at shadows. And Dan is relying on this. Now if you look at his press conferences, I was a big believer in him. And I was trying to defend him and support him just on a human level, not on a policy level. But he’s gone so far now where the way he treats us is more akin to an abuser relationship. And he’s starting to really use fear to divide us. And I think we have to be careful not to allow ourselves to get into that fear, even when we’re fighting him. Because then he’s still winning. We have to make sure when I say let’s let’s stand together as Victorians and I made a video called I don’t stand with Dan, I stand with Victoria. The reason is, I don’t think I think he would be most annoyed if we were not afraid of him, or of the virus. I think if we were to come against them and say you’re an idiot, Dan, and I don’t think that would hurt him at all. But I think what would really hurt Dan, is if we got on with our lives, if we were mature, if we were happy. I mean happy in the sense that we just refuse to have his fear within hope. And we started to treat each other well. I think that would piss him off no end. Because I think what you’d start to see your society start to function. little bits of disobedience would happen here and there. Like when I took my daughter to the swing across the road in a quiet suburban neighborhood illegally, I might add a push to on the swing, stuff like that. We’re starting to see sparks of hope within the community by being a bit more more hopeful. So that’s this dissolve the fear. Remember that he doesn’t set what Victoria is I know it looks like that. But he can’t actually control us as much as he’s trying to at the end of the day. You know, there’s a quote by learned Hayes, I think his name was he was a justice, a judge in the US and he said, Liberty lies within the hearts of men and women and no constitution, no law, and no police. Nothing can can revive it when it dies there and in the same way, no constitution, no lawn. No, no executive can kill it when it lives there. So we need to make sure that we remember that we have we have that power.

Molly Knight 45:31
Hmm. Yeah, that’s, that’s lovely. Yeah, we do have the power. That’s right. Okay, Matt, thank you. That’s been really interesting. And I really enjoy your balanced approach. Thank you. It’s, um, it’s great. What What is your website, Matt, so people can go and have a look and follow you

Matt Wong 45:54
probably just had to discernible is. There’s two ways of spelling discernible for some reason I chose that a virgin. So just discern and enable. I’m on Facebook, Twitter, not Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram. But yeah, I have a TV show as well, which is cool that I post on there with. It’s called What’s it called? Not? It was called not the project is I think I already told you. We’re trying to fight the project. We have we’ve renamed it to the people’s project. But we have people on like, we have Craig Kelly on Friday, and we have all the COVID doctors on we have just incredible people. You can find me there. And hey, thank you so much, Molly, for having me on. I hope it helped someone out there.

Molly Knight 46:37
Yeah, I’m pretty sure it will, Matt, it’s certainly your balanced approach. I think he’s very calming. I found it calming. And, you know, it’s good to know that. You know, like, when I saw that photo of the camera with the loudspeakers, I just went back and said, Can this be verified? Please? Nobody gets back to me. So it’s, I guess, people perhaps like, they just put stuff out there and then move on to the next thing. So you’re left sort of going, Is this real? Is it not real? How do we respond? Do we do anything? Do we do nothing? So

Matt Wong 47:14
it’s like the children thing they can take your children think that? Yeah, that’s been misrepresented.

Molly Knight 47:20
Hmm. Yeah. So they they won’t just come into your house and take your kids less? Yeah. I mean, you can understand if there’s a serious reason, I can understand that at any time. Children need to be safe. But yeah, yeah. So thank you for your balanced approach methods. It’s been wonderful and your information is enormously valuable. Thank you. Thank you for coming on. Nice.

Matt Wong 47:46
Thank you. My pleasure.

Molly Knight 47:47
Thank you. Good night, everyone. Thank you for joining us, and I hope you’ve gained as much from this talk as I certainly have. And yeah, thank you. Stay, stay well. stay aware and awake, and let’s get our country back on to a good economic and healthy footing. Good night, everyone.

 

 

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